The case for a no-lights trial

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Comment by Martin Cassini on January 14, 2010 at 7:08am

David, thanks for your comments.

Re the 20mph suggestion, speed limits are prescriptive; they license speed at a level that can't suit all circumstances. In my view it's better to design streets that stimulate appropriate conduct based on context. When there's no-one about, drivers can go faster. When there are hazards, they can go at snail's pace - a perfect trade-off. It doesn't treat people like idiots, and allows them, to use their judgement. The vast majority, given a choice, are sensible and co-operative. Trouble with the current system, it deprives us of choice. You can't even legislate for "maniacs", so why hobble the vast majority with one-size-fits-all rules devised to catch the hypothetical deviant?

Yes, forty years ago when I spent time in Munich I noted the amber-flashing lights at side roads that operated off peak. In allowing discretion, they are a big improvement on mandatory controls. But no priority could be the best of all worlds. In the absence of artificial priority, we get instinctive priority, i.e. filter-in-turn, which stimulates slow approach speeds and civilised interaction.

At major junctions at peak times, we might need part-time controls, especially where multi-lane roads meet, but how do we know until we've tried it?

By and large, given freedom to choose, human beings can be trusted to do the right thing, but CCTV and/or liability laws could be deployed in support. In the Netherlands, for example, liability laws protect the weak. A child under 14 cannot be liable in the event of a collision. To avoid liability for an accident with a pedestrian or cyclist over 14, the driver has to prove a reckless act. In other words, responsibility for safety is with the driver.

Comment by David Walker on January 14, 2010 at 12:31am

A very convincing presentation.

There are a few other facts worth considering.

Throughout the USA and Canada it is normal to stop at intersections and look to the offside and let any car waiting there to progress and then to follow it. It is exactly the sort of behaviour that you would use at a meeting of corridors in a large building. However pedestrians can stop instantly, while a motorist travelling at over 20 mph cannot easily stop.So a sensible system would restrict speed in urban areas to below 20 mph.

For many years in Denmark there has been a system of flashing amber lights to warn motorists that they were approaching an intersection, which seemed to work well during most of the day. But during the morning and evening busy periods the lights changed to a pattern of alternate working using red and green with about two minutes in each direction. This actually speeded the flow when traffic was heavy.

Hamburg introduced a Grunewelle system on major road which set lights to green for blocks of traffic travelling at the appropriate speed (50kph on major roads). the green lights rippled along the road so that traffic moving at the right speed would not have to stop.

A number of Spanish towns and villages have red lights that come on whenever a vehicle approaches at more that 50kph, very effective in keeping speeds down.

In many American States the law allows filtering to the nearside at junctions, which can speed up traffic flows.

Moving to a system of removing traffic lights and roundabouts in the UK would be challenged on the grounds that people would not obey it. This is not necessarily true. In the ward for which I am Councillor the County Traffic Officers changed priorities at a road junction without much warning and there were about 30 minor crashes in the first three weeks, and in the two years since then nothing.Motorists will learn not to assume they have the right of way quite quickly.

This is a challenging approach to sensible road use and needs to be promoted widely.

I will bring it to the attention of our hghways Forum and the relevant County Councillors.

Comment by Ian Perry on March 9, 2009 at 11:04pm

From Cycling in the Netherlands, published by the Dutch Ministry of Transport, Public Works and Water Management Directorate-General for Passenger Transport

"Something that should not be overlooked in the safety section: Liability. In some countries,
bicycling is seen as causing danger, which sometimes ends up in an anti-cycling policy. The Dutch
philosophy is: Cyclists are not dangerous; cars and car drivers are: so car drivers should take the
responsibility for avoiding collisions with cyclists. This implies that car drivers are almost always
liable when a collision with a bicycle occurs and should adapt their speed when bicycles share the
roads with cyclists"

So motorised vehicle drivers do have more responsibility towards other road users.

The due care and attention required of the British motorist is somewhat not observed - pedestrians are supposed to run out of the way... UK legislation was passed in 2000 to clearly define the legal liabilities on shared space to be with drivers, thus allowing councils and developers more confidence to develop such schemes.

When removing lights, there may be liability issues still.

Lights on larger roundabouts do provide larger gaps for cyclists and can slow motorists down. I still do not like cycling on them, even in cycling friendly Freiburg, where joining the roundabout cyclists sometimes get a small head start on the motorised traffic..

Any thoughts on "magic" roundabouts to replace lights as in High Wycombe and Hemel Hempstead?

Comment by Martin Cassini on March 9, 2009 at 7:18pm

I have yet to investigate the liability question in shared space towns such as Drachten, so I don't know if the new relationship between road-users is enshrined formally in law. Certainly "on the ground" a new hierarchy has emerged with vulnerable road-users at the top. The rare collision that might occur is minor, because approach speeds are low. In some haste, Martin

Comment by Paul Luton on March 9, 2009 at 4:43pm

I wonder if the countries where this works have strict liability laws to protect vulnerable road users. Conversely large roundabouts are made demonstrably safer for cyclists by adding traffic lights - perhaps this is the opposite extreme with a motor vehicle dominated environment.

Comment by Ian Perry on February 28, 2009 at 5:16pm

This is very interesting! The link to share does not work - perhaps this could be uploaded to YouTube?

There does also need to be a change of mentality... I narrowly survived a motorist turning left over a pavement, cutting across me and narrowly missing my toes whilst assuming he had right of way, once again today... So if we allow left turns on red, there will be problems... Getting rid of lights all together, may or may not solve this problem.

On a bicycle, I like the leader of the UK Conservative Party will go through on red when not affecting pedestrians or other street users. I think that research shows that the energy needed for a cyclist to pull away from a halt is the same as cycling 100m. Not effecting others in a negative way is key.

This week a pensioner in the UK was fined for skating at speed in a shopping centre. He did not quite understand that although he thought he was "safe", the problem was that others perceived themselves at risk because of his actions.

There is only one set of temporary traffic lights in Cardiff. They work on a roundabout over the M$ in the morning. Yesterday, I wish that they had been on in the evening... Otherwise, I wish that all the lights on roundabouts throughout Cardiff were permanently turned off, or at least temporarily.

One interesting case is on a cross roeads, where the left hand lane filters away to be stopped by pedestrian lights. Past the pedestrian lights is a give way sign. However, if the pedestrian light is green, there is never a need to stop at the give way sign... On a nearby newly build junction there is a similar filter lane where there is a need to give way after passing through a pedestrian light. I can see someone forgetting to look right...

I may need to take some photographs. Interestingly, I know of only one person who has stopped and moved slowly though the red light to turn left at the give way junction.