The case for a no-lights trial

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Comment by Ian Perry on March 9, 2009 at 11:04pm

From Cycling in the Netherlands, published by the Dutch Ministry of Transport, Public Works and Water Management Directorate-General for Passenger Transport

"Something that should not be overlooked in the safety section: Liability. In some countries,
bicycling is seen as causing danger, which sometimes ends up in an anti-cycling policy. The Dutch
philosophy is: Cyclists are not dangerous; cars and car drivers are: so car drivers should take the
responsibility for avoiding collisions with cyclists. This implies that car drivers are almost always
liable when a collision with a bicycle occurs and should adapt their speed when bicycles share the
roads with cyclists"

So motorised vehicle drivers do have more responsibility towards other road users.

The due care and attention required of the British motorist is somewhat not observed - pedestrians are supposed to run out of the way... UK legislation was passed in 2000 to clearly define the legal liabilities on shared space to be with drivers, thus allowing councils and developers more confidence to develop such schemes.

When removing lights, there may be liability issues still.

Lights on larger roundabouts do provide larger gaps for cyclists and can slow motorists down. I still do not like cycling on them, even in cycling friendly Freiburg, where joining the roundabout cyclists sometimes get a small head start on the motorised traffic..

Any thoughts on "magic" roundabouts to replace lights as in High Wycombe and Hemel Hempstead?

Comment by Martin Cassini on March 9, 2009 at 7:18pm

I have yet to investigate the liability question in shared space towns such as Drachten, so I don't know if the new relationship between road-users is enshrined formally in law. Certainly "on the ground" a new hierarchy has emerged with vulnerable road-users at the top. The rare collision that might occur is minor, because approach speeds are low. In some haste, Martin

Comment by Paul Luton on March 9, 2009 at 4:43pm

I wonder if the countries where this works have strict liability laws to protect vulnerable road users. Conversely large roundabouts are made demonstrably safer for cyclists by adding traffic lights - perhaps this is the opposite extreme with a motor vehicle dominated environment.

Comment by Ian Perry on February 28, 2009 at 5:16pm

This is very interesting! The link to share does not work - perhaps this could be uploaded to YouTube?

There does also need to be a change of mentality... I narrowly survived a motorist turning left over a pavement, cutting across me and narrowly missing my toes whilst assuming he had right of way, once again today... So if we allow left turns on red, there will be problems... Getting rid of lights all together, may or may not solve this problem.

On a bicycle, I like the leader of the UK Conservative Party will go through on red when not affecting pedestrians or other street users. I think that research shows that the energy needed for a cyclist to pull away from a halt is the same as cycling 100m. Not effecting others in a negative way is key.

This week a pensioner in the UK was fined for skating at speed in a shopping centre. He did not quite understand that although he thought he was "safe", the problem was that others perceived themselves at risk because of his actions.

There is only one set of temporary traffic lights in Cardiff. They work on a roundabout over the M$ in the morning. Yesterday, I wish that they had been on in the evening... Otherwise, I wish that all the lights on roundabouts throughout Cardiff were permanently turned off, or at least temporarily.

One interesting case is on a cross roeads, where the left hand lane filters away to be stopped by pedestrian lights. Past the pedestrian lights is a give way sign. However, if the pedestrian light is green, there is never a need to stop at the give way sign... On a nearby newly build junction there is a similar filter lane where there is a need to give way after passing through a pedestrian light. I can see someone forgetting to look right...

I may need to take some photographs. Interestingly, I know of only one person who has stopped and moved slowly though the red light to turn left at the give way junction.